Brian's Morning Newsletter
Tuesday, April 17 2012
Yep, the non-mechanically inclined can skip this morning's newsletter.
I'm posting this on the LostJeeps forum this morning so it is a dissertation on the turbocharger repair as much as a newsletter.
The Jeep lost power with a puff of smoke during the last leg of a ~500 mile round trip to Kenton, Oklahoma from our home in Northern New Mexico, near Sapello (87745)
I trouble shot the engine problem using a combination of experiences. As I suspected it was the turbo, because it has been making whining noises since Fall. Nell and I replaced the fuel filter in the parking lot of the gas station in Wagon Mound where the trouble occurred, so the lack of power wasn't a fuel delivery issue. This was the first trip of the season using biodiesel, so we had to get the fuel filter out of the way.
Also I now have the bluetooth OBDII scan tool and the Android App Torque running. It had reported a MAP sensor discrepancy, nothing more. I have not been able to dig very deep in the Torque App, or at least not been able to get very much from the App nor the Wiki and forum, but I have played with the program often.A nyway I didn't know if I believed the MAP sensor error under these conditions. It didn't really matter what the Jeep's computer was saying, this wasn't my first dance with a blown turbo. I knew the symptoms. The most important is to monitor the engine oil very closely. When a turbo breaks it often sucks the engine oil normally used to lubricate the turbine shaft bearings and shoots it into the diesel engine. The results can be quickly disastrous. The engine could enter what's called a "runaway," condition, meaning it is feeding on its own motor oil. A diesel can maintain a runaway condition until it uses all of its engine oil, and when it's out, the engine having none left for its own lubrication dies a horrible death.
We were hopeful. It was Easter. Alas, the fuel filter didn't change the fact that the engine didn't have any power. We drove the Jeep up a block and back amid a terrible cloud of white smoke. I shut it off and thankfully,it did so. There was oil dripping out of the bottom of the muffler. The only thing left for us to do was figure out how we were going to get ourselves and our Jeep the rest of the 50 miles home with out starting the engine again.
(turbo-exhaust-side) After much shuffling of vehicles we had the Jeep in the shop. The VW Diesel Rabbit cylinder head project got literally put on the back burner as it easily went with a light push from Jack and me. The Jeep was turned around in the field and with the aid of a long tow chain we were able to sling it around and get it close enough to the garage door to pull it the rest of the way in with the chain hoist. While the VW weighs around 2000 pounds the Jeep weighs in at nearly three tons.
I removed the air charge upper hose. Oh by the way, the air cleaner box wouldn't budge until I read about it from the Lost Jeeps forum that it requires a hellofa good yank to free it from its rubber holders. Thanks Lost Jeeps. The coolant tank also needs to come out, and a couple cables get unclasped, all in all it was simple to get to the turbocharger. Once I had the air charger hose off I was able to get my finger into the air side of the turbine fins.What I felt wasn't good. The turbine was loose, wobbly loose, not free and easy loose.
After reading on Lost Jeeps about the frailty of the air charger hoses I was on the look out for rubber disintegration. Oh, I should explain what an Air Charger hose does for the folks in the dark. In the modern turbocharged engine air derived from the air filter, is sucked through the turbine, driven by the exhaust gas turbine which has the unwanted effect of heating the air, so it is blown through a special radiator called an Intercooler where the air is cooled before being injected into the engine.
(Turbo still in) Most everything with the Jeep diesel engine is logically designed, well at least so far I'm happy with what I have worked on, which includes replacing the timing belt. In the above photo the exhaust pipe is removed from the turbo, a process made so easy becasue of a well designed clamp and a flex pipe below, honestly I couldn't believe that it was off and completely out of the way as quickly as it was. The four nuts holding the turbo was just like any I've encountered before, a bit of Mechanic's contortionism and many many 1/16 turns with a box end wrench and off it came. For a brief moment after looking in the factory service manual (FSM) I thought maybe there were only three nuts, but no, there are four.
It says in the FSM that the splash shield under the engine needs to be removed to get to the oil return pipe bolts. I haven't been able to get one of the bolts off my Jeep's splash pan, so I didn't remove it. On the bright side I don't see how it would have helped. It really isn't in the way. The engine mount is in the way, but not the splash pan, at least not the type on my 2005 Jeep Liberty. Yep, those two eight millimeter bolts were a tight squeeze to reach. I tried a few things, extensions, swivel adapters, pneumatic ratchet, finally a stubby handle ratchet with a eight inch extension got them both.
(turbo-intake-side) Mopar parts lists the turbo for a whooping $1,595.00. From the image above you may be able to make out the damage to the aluminum housing where the turbine was rubbing, no doubt the noises I heard. Reed Patridge from http://turborepair.com says a cartridge can cost from $800 to $1300 depending on a lot of things not the least of which is that damage to the housing.
(turbo-bro-Jack) My brother helped and made me persevere. Besides the damage to the housing, the shaft is broken. Yeah, when I blow a turbo I leave nothing undamaged. Well that's not entirely true, I did shut off the engine and checked the oil, so no damage beyond the blown turbo. I trust Reed completely, I recommend his team after he went beyond the call of duty to locate a turbo for my Isuzu diesel a couple of years ago. Since I last spoke with him he has revamped is site and now focuses on racing as well as standard turbochargers. For us CRD lovers Reed has in stock a (large) selection of Garret turbocharger parts
(turbo-larger-exhaust-side) Once I had the turbo on the bench I noticed that the shaft wasn't connected from one side to the other.
(turbo-larger-intake-side) Variable geometry turbochargers, I had to look them up http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable-g … rbocharger Pretty cool stuff if you ask me.
LIBERTY CRD 2005 R2816K5 (VM) 160 2.8/4 D GT2056V 763360-0001 35242115F
Okay I'll give ya one odd ball picture from the yard this morning
April2012-elk Four or five bull elks were right outside our door prior to dawn. Unfortunately as I had the door open to take some pictures the dogs got out and scared the elk away.
Alrighty then, I gotta go finish irrigating the field
Firstly, I'm glad you did not attempt to run the jeep much after the turbo failed, however don't think that you are completely out of the woods yet on engine damage. I too experienced a shaft snapping on my turbo, and discovered the same thing that happened to you: The oil did not get put into the intake, it got put into the exhaust line.
The problem is that the oil feed for the turbo comes from the main gallery that also feeds the rod bearings and piston cooling jets. At idle on a warm engine, this gallery is ONLY reading about 18-20 psi, and that is when the turbo is providing a proper restriction to the oil flow. With the turbo broken, that can equate to a giant hole in the oil gallery, allowing critically needed pressure to escape rather than push oil to the pistons. Driving it for 2 blocks is not much different than what I did of coasting for slightly longer than 2 blocks. How low is your oil reading? That will be the first indicator of whether you did any more serious damage.
Now, about the turbo replacements. I'm sure some of the other members will chime in here, most notably a Hoosier CRD who knows a great many things about Garrett turbos, and they will say the same thing: Garrett does not rebuild these VNT turbos. Your friend might have lots of parts that are compatible, but they are NOT authorized by Garrett for rebuilding the VNT turbo that we have.
This is not to say that it cannot be done, I bought one of those rebuild bearing kits and tried it on a turbo that had started making scraping / whining sounds, and I believed that the rebuild was a success. Until I installed it. The turbo then made no odd noises while running, but when shutting the engine off, it makes a scraping sound. I pulled that turbo out of service and combined its VNT section and exhaust housing with the factory center cartridge (that did work) from another turbo which had a VNT problem. I now am driving on a functional FrankenTurbo, and I know full well that I am on my own as far as Garrett is concerned.
The prices you have found are not unusual for a complete turbo, IF you are foolish and only look at Mopar for supply. The cost for a replacement cartridge is ALSO too high, see the previous paragraph about Garrett NOT SELLING PARTS so I do not know where he sourced those center cartridges.
Want a BRAND-NEW Factory fresh Garrett turbo, complete? $1080. From Garrett. Go to your local Bosch diesel injection service shop, they will most likely also be a Garrett distributor, and can look the turbo up directly from the numbers on it, and tell you the ACTUAL price. Mopar is SCREWING THE OWNERS by charging a 100% markup just-because. The ACTUAL Mopar cost is $750. I know, because that is what I paid for that turbo with the VNT problem (had it from day one – factory defect) when I got it from a dealer friend of mine.
Obviously, I am not in favor of giving Mopar ANY more money, they have done NOTHING GOOD in their treatment of the CRD or the owners of that vehicle. Bosch shops and the Association of Diesel Servicers (ADS) members will take care of the hard stuff… We are on our own for the rest, which is where this forum comes in.
Jeep turbo job May 5th 2012 update
After a longer than I care to think about we have a new turbocharger.
Yesterday I got the unit installed. Now I am checking and checking no doubt making my blood pressure high.
I pulled the CAC hoses fro inspection: There was a little oil in there, They look like Vitron hoses with no rot, so I washed them with detergent, Blasted water through them with the garden hose, now they are drying in the sun. I am glad there was only a little oil, but still I wish there was a drain on the intercooler just to be sure. I'm agonizing over whether to pull it and drain and clean it.
Jeep-new-Turbo-job-tough-nuts those are the easy to get to nuts
Catalytic-converter-Jeep This is where I believe most of the motor oil went. I'll pull the catalytic converter off here in a minute
Thanks to Lost Jeeps again
Brian's Morning Newsletter
Monday, May 07 2012
How do I spell relief? Probably incorrectly. Doesn't matter does it? Relief is the feeling I felt yesterday around 6:00PM after I got the courage to top-off the oil in the Jeep and turn it over. The diesel engine purred to life as if nothing had ever been amiss.
Honestly I often wish we could afford to hire a professional mechanic to work on our cars. Certainly there are benefits to doing it myself, such as knowing I did the best possible job, but the stress is a killer. The moments prior to getting in the car and turning over the engine after major repair is not something I care to repeat.
Too much is on the line. I can't explain, and even if I could, I'm certain most people can not relate, and probably wouldn't want to read about it. I'm just happy it's over. I said to Nell last night, "I won't use the Jeep for work today, I still need to change the oil and filter. Tuesday, I'll do that and afterward I will devote my full mechanical attention to the Mercedes and the Volkswagen. I'll get one or both back in action, that is a promise."
We received a incredible thunderstorm last night. Someday we'll get a recording weather station. What we know is it drizzled from dusk until dark, then it began to thunder. Shortly after dark, hail pounded everything for 30 minutes to an hour. The power blinked out for a moment. Normally we're running the TV and streaming video off our wind power, at that moment we were on grid power.
Obviously yesterday we were preoccupied, in fact I was barely able to move without pain, mainly I think from leaning over the engine compartment and being on the concrete floor of the shop all weekend.
Nell goes back to work this morning, an idea which I can see is causing her severe anxiety. This surgery on her foot was nearly as traumatic as the first time, except instead of three months off work so she can keep her foot elevated and heal, she goes back to work after less than a week, along with the added anxiety of worrying about job security.
Alrighty, lemme get you a little picture show going
(truncating see http://outfitnm.com/2012/05/07/bmn-woohoo-jeep-is-back for the whole deal)
Jeep-engine-compartment-after-turbo-job – (I know, you can't even tell I did anything, right?)
Neat little story about the coolant tank seen above with golden colored fluid in it. Jack and I could not locate one last small hose to the top of that tank. I thought perhaps there wasn't one, except the book kind of showed different. So I grabbed short section of hose from the hose stash and placed it on the hose barb sticking out the top of the tank, thinking I would blow on it and see if it was active. An amazing thing happened: The missing hose hissed. Sure it would, the coolant system is a closed system, meaning fluids can't get out, unless one of the hoses is off. Bingo!
Brians-projects-linedup All my self congratulatory maneuvering only makes the line up of broken vehicles I have around the shop tolerable. There is the White Rabbit, it should not take much to get it running. Behind that is one of the Isuzu Troopers I was planning to combine its good engine parts with another one to make a sell-able vehicle, yeah that's getting back-burnered.
Brians-projects-linedup-all-around The Red Benz I'm feeling better about. Weldon and I have been talking and he suggested that the cylinder with higher compression may be the hole with the leaking fuel injector. Makes sense to me. I completely trust Weldon.
Then there is our Dodge dually, it has been on my mind much lately. A friend is bringing his little backhoe – loader out to do some work, I sure wish I had the dump-bed on the Dodge working. I don't even think it is going to be that huge of a project. I know what you're thinking, "famous last words," right? Like any project, it is all about investment and payoff. Slim gave us a PTO that may or may not fit the Dodge. A PTO BTW is a device that attaches to the transmission and delivers a spinning shaft for running extravehicular equipment, like a hydraulic pump for a dump-bed.
If the donated PTO fits, great, but if it doesn't the Dodge is worth spending $500 on a new one, because of the fact that a working dump truck makes money. Although one of the main projects I am inclined toward, is the creation of a river pond and the material removed being brought up here and put on the roads. None of these aspects really makes money, they are just good for the ranch.
What is good for the ranch is good for me.
With all these tragedies of late, I need a few feel good projects. Creating a fish pond sounds so nice, doesn't it?
That's it then. Oh yeah, it is now raining like crazy. I don't imagine I have to work today. That's cool, maybe I can drive Nell to work and pick up the oil change supplies and work in the shop today.
On the other hand, maybe we'll both stay home and recuperate
Oh happy Monday to all